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Senior Housing Investors
Affordable Housing and Child Care for Staff: A Unique Solution to a Staffing Challenge
Our host Kelsie Heermans speak with Maggie and John Randolph, owners of Harmony Homes in New Hampshire. Today's discussion focuses on staffing and affordability. Everyone of us in the senior living industry is well aware of each of these issues. Listen in on this discussion regarding their unique model.
I guess what it comes down to is that when we got into affordable housing we really opened our eyes as to just how big the problem is. We need 90,000 units across the state over the next couple of decades to meet the need, never mind where we want to grow as a state. So it's really interesting, in a tricky way, of seeing where the state could go. So we feel very strongly in supporting the affordable housing effort.
Speaker 2:The other challenge in New Hampshire that we're facing is that we have about 150,000 people currently over age 65, and that number is a strongly growing state, is going to quadruple to 600,000 in the next 15 years, and so we don't have anywhere near the facilities that we're going to need to care for 600,000 people.
Speaker 3:Welcome to the Senior Housing Investors Podcast. If you are an owner operator, investor, developer or buyer of senior housing, you've come to the right place. The best way to stay connected with us is to sign up for our weekly newsletter at HavenSeniorInvestmentscom. This podcast doesn't exist without you and our community. Thank you for listening and reach out to us anytime. Welcome back everyone. Today, our host, Kelsey Herrmann, speaks with Maggie and John Randolph, owners of Harmony Homes in New Hampshire. Today's discussion focuses on staffing and affordability in their model. Every one of us in the senior living industry is well aware of staffing challenges. Listen in on this discussion regarding their unique model, kelsey.
Speaker 4:Thank you so much, john. I am happy to be here with Maggie and John Randolph. Maggie is an architect and the owner of GSD Studios. John is a contractor and both him and Maggie run Harmony Homes in New Hampshire. They have combined their experience and drive to resolve a pretty major challenge in the senior living industry. You guessed it staffing John and Maggie. thank you so much for joining me today on the podcast.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for having us.
Speaker 4:I am joining you guys from Sardinia, italy. This is pretty exciting that we can chat with each other across the world. I'm glad everyone is listening in today. Let's just jump right in, maggie, if you want to start, and just kind of tell our listeners a little bit about yourself.
Speaker 1:Sure, like you said, i am a licensed architect in New Hampshire. I got into architecture because it seemed like I've always had this love for buildings, even when I was seven or eight years old. I got introduced to the idea of being an architect when I was at St Paul's School in New Hampshire. Then I moved to Miami and got my degree there at University of Miami. The great thing about going there was that I also received a large background in urban planning That kind of brought this love of neighborhood development. That has really been a big part of my career as well. I have done a lot of state and government commercial work Since meeting John and joining forces here. As we've been married and such, it's been really great to get into the residential sector and start working on workforce housing.
Speaker 4:That's great. Thank you, John. would you tell us a little bit about yourself?
Speaker 2:Sure, i grew up on a small farm in southern Maine. At 17, i decided to join the military. I went in the Air Force for 22 years. I served around the world and was able to get my education at a number of institutions around the US. Then, when I got out, it was really kind of an interesting transition in that I enjoy serving. I really worked for a couple of years on some federal grants and some programs in New Hampshire to solve some staffing issues in New Hampshire, then slowly got into the assisted living and memory care business. That's really where I met Maggie. She was on the design team for one of our projects and everything We at that point worked on designing that. Later on we got to know each other a little bit better and ended up leading to us getting married.
Speaker 4:What a cool story, maggie. was that your first time working in senior living when you met John, or had you been doing that for a while?
Speaker 1:No, that was my first venture into senior living design. I was a small part of the design team. I worked on the project for a little bit. That's where I met him. Then, a few years later, after I moved to us different companies and such, we got back in touch Then. clearly, I've been much more involved with senior care since then.
Speaker 4:That's great. Can you tell us a little bit more about Harmony Homes?
Speaker 2:We started Harmony Homes in a 24-bed bed and breakfast was the first location in Durham, new Hampshire. It kind of sprung from a couple of different reasons that we started it. We started it from the ground up. Basically two things that happened in my life I watched my grandfather go through the process of aging in facilities and just completely the lack of dignity to some facilities.
Speaker 2:I don't want to broaden it, but some facilities don't offer the dignity that I believe our seniors should be afforded and watching my grandfather go through that process. And then the other part of it is just the overwhelming need And that was 10 years ago and the need has obviously increased a lot since then for people to find affordable senior housing. And so the location the first location in Durham doesn't turn anybody away financially, regardless of where they are financially. And that spawned us to look into memory care. And the second facility we built in Durham was a 60 bed memory care facility And that's really where we are right now And Maggie's actually started to design a skilled nursing facility, which would be our next endeavor.
Speaker 4:So tell her listeners when you realized that staffing was a challenge that needed a unique solution, and how did you guys come up with this solution?
Speaker 2:So we, like many businesses, were already struggling with staffing pre-pandemic. There's certainly the demarcation between pre-pandemic and pandemic staffing issues. There's significantly worse after that. But obviously we're struggling to fill all our overnight staffing a lot of openings And we're really asking our staff to go too far, meaning they were working a lot of hours, their commute times were really bad And we started to sit down with our staff and ask them some questions about their lifestyle And that's when we got a lot of useful feedback on how we could possibly change how we staff.
Speaker 1:So the other part to that is when we started talking to our staff about what they were looking for. But we wanted to make sure that we were competitive with other assisted livings in the area, so we actually initiated 21% raises across the board to our staff. We were doing everything we could at that point, conventionally, to make sure that we were offering the best benefits and pay that we possibly could Keep in mind, as John said, that we were also trying to make sure that our beds are also affordable for our seniors. So it's an interesting balance of how to give the best care to our seniors at an affordable rate while paying the best and offering the best benefits that we could. And so that's when we kind of looked at each other after talking with our staff and realizing we got to get creative. What else can we do?
Speaker 2:And that's when we went to the town of Durham and we have a 28-acre parcel that has a memory care facility on it and is the future home of two more facilities that we hope to grow to, and ask them for permission to build housing on it for our staff. And so we did that. And that's when we incorporated a childcare also, and so that's the seven one bedroom apartments on our Durham location that we charge our staff 30% of their pay if they're full-time or 16 hours if they're part-time. So we have students that go to the university nearby that work 16 hours a week for us. they get paid and then, after taxes, that's their rent.
Speaker 1:Which is really an exciting program and it's made a big difference. We just heard over and over about our staff. They're traveling so far to work because they can't find an affordable place in and around Durham to live. And then you add on the idea of childcare. So if somebody is driving an hour home or to and from work each day, but then they're also adding on a place to try and find an affordable place to place their kids, they might be driving to a relatives house or something to drop off, and so what could start out as an eight-hour day could quickly go into a 12-plus-hour day, and so it's really interesting. We were going oh my goodness, this is something that. what can we do? So John does have a background in real estate as well. He did dabble a little bit in real estate while he flips that sort of thing while in the military. And then obviously, my background I was an architect and we said you know what? let's combine our forces here and what can we do. And that's how the seven-bedroom apartment building really came into being.
Speaker 4:What an incredible idea. I'm so curious to know more about that. So, when you guys decided to do this and actually put it all into action, how long was that whole entire process from? kind of that brilliant idea came to us, but let's actually get this done. What was that process like?
Speaker 2:We sat down with the town of Durham and kind of gave them a proposal of what we wanted to do. And Durham, new Hampshire, is a college town so there's a large university there and There was obviously a concern about who would live there and what would it look like and how professional would it be. So we had to reassure everybody that there was going to be a professional environment And everything. So we do. Have you everybody living there, from UNH nursing students all the way through to professional overnight staff. So the process took probably, i would say, about 18 months from the initial concept to breaking ground. Fortunately for us, we've worked with the same civil engineer a couple of times before and he was able to jump on board really quick.
Speaker 2:Maggie is the architect of the program. We were able to get her undivided attention And everything and starting to put it together. But the process of getting just through the town they're involved in everything from color selection on the exterior to Height of the building, so they're very, very specific. So that took about 18 months. The other interesting part of it is during that process We were starting to get numbers on how much it would be to build it And we're starting to get bids of, like you know, 1.6 million or more for the project, which was going to take it out of being an affordable project. That's when we decided to Buy an excavator and basically hire our own building crew and we built it ourselves For just over a million dollars. So we saved about five hundred and fifty thousand dollars in building it, which allowed the project to stay affordable.
Speaker 4:Yeah, i think that's. That's an interesting point to bring up. I know you know Maggie and I were talking about that at one point on well, gosh, this seems like such a great idea. Why doesn't everybody do it? And you know she was, you know, very quick to bring up that this was not an easy thing and you guys had to get so creative to keep it affordable, so that it was a possibility for you to do this for your staff.
Speaker 2:It's impossible for us to ask our staff to give great care to our residents If we're not supporting them with great care, and so I mean the hard part was narrowing it down to seven staff that we're going to move into the building. The wait list there is is more than double the units that we could actually build there.
Speaker 4:Wow, that was. That was kind of going into my next question of can you tell us how this has been received? Did you get the outcome that you envisioned before you started this project?
Speaker 2:Well, it actually has gone a little bit better than we expected. I mean, we obviously never have a vacant day over there. If someone does choose to move out, which is very rare, the apartments over there are renting for a low of 650 and a high of $900, and so in a market that a one bedroom is above 1400 to 1500 dollars, and so you can see that Retention is very high among those individuals. They're saving probably in the neighborhood of 600 or $700 a month and and rent, and Then, if they're using our childcare on location, they're probably saving another two or three hundred dollars a month in childcare. So the that building alone is saving staff members that live there about a thousand dollars a month, and so Not many people move out of that building.
Speaker 2:It would have to be fairly drastic for someone to move out of that building, and so that's been stunningly successful. So it also gives the retention tool that gives our staff, our residents and our everything a long-term care model, so that they're a lot, they're truly getting cared for by the same people Every day, and so the retention has been invaluable, and Maggie and I talk about it all the time. We put an ad out for an LNA and we get nothing, zero, nobody responds. We put an ad out for an apartment with an LNA position that we're willing to train, and we get 60 applicants.
Speaker 1:It's really been a game changer for us. So the success of the building, yes, it pays for itself, which is a wonderful thing. You know we look at that building as a long-term investment. The short-term investment for us is the stabilization of Harmony homes, and it has been. It's really shown us.
Speaker 2:Just you know How important this issue is and how crucial the other thing it does It's really nice is that it sends a strong signal to our staff. I joke, and they say the only bad thing about living in this building is that you can't be late to work. It's 600 feet from door to door and so Our staff are dropping off their children downstairs. If they live in the building with with children and Walking over to work, they can spend lunch with their children, they can see their children at activities, but they're saving upwards of two hours a day of travel time, which they can translate into family time.
Speaker 4:That's so huge where you bring in. I believe you guys have said this before on one of our previous phone calls that The importance of bringing safety and security and self-esteem and purpose not only to your residents But to your staff too. You're right. It does send a very important message that their lives matter, their lives outside of work matter. So what an incredible thing you've been able to to offer your staff. So you guys also Decided to try and solve another big problem, the daycare issue You mentioned. You talked a little bit about that, but tell us, how does the daycare center on the property work and how did you decide to add that as well?
Speaker 2:So the number one and number two issue when we pulled our staff on what they needed, you know, was we need housing and we need child care. Across the industry there's certainly a lot of single parents that are in the health care industry, but even dual income homes are having a hard time affording child care. Child care can be, you know, $400 a week in our area. So if someone's making $20 an hour, it doesn't make sense to even work outside of the home if you have to pay $1,600 a month in child care. So we thought long and hard about do we want to get into the child care business? because it's a challenge And what we ended up doing is partnering with a child care in the area that was willing to franchise a location with us. So the child care director lives literally next door to the child care in an affordable apartment. She went from being, you know, an $18 an hour child care employee at a local child care to being a small business owner. So she's a franchise owner at the location. She runs as a business and everything, and then she gets basically our guaranteed support and everything else through the physical location of the building. We built a playground for her on there. We partner her with our activities, people inside the building and everything, and so the relationship has been great.
Speaker 2:But it's been something that there's ups and downs to this. There's challenges of you know what happens when you have somebody that's a great tenant or a great employee, but they're not the opposite They're not a great tenant or they're not a great employee. Same thing with the child care, you know, and stuff like that. We have to make sure that that partnership works real well And so we're growing that model. We're hoping to extend the hours that were open. We don't open any weekend hours right now, for example, i'd like to get to weekend hours down the road. But the benefit of having it there once again reinforces the model that we care about the family of our, of our caregivers, that we support them, and then we're going to find a way, whether it's financially or through the care, to send that, that message very strongly.
Speaker 4:So have you guys done much with, you know, intergenerational projects? where are the kiddos at the daycare able to come into your assisted living, or has that not quite started at this point?
Speaker 2:Well, we, just as everybody else, the, you know, are starting to finally mothball the pandemic. You know, we're finally starting to put that away as a concern. That was something that we we opened the child care just about a year ago And now we just did Easter eggs together recently, which was a blast to see the kids come into the building and do Easter eggs. And so we're slowly now that the pandemic is not. You know, we don't want to challenge the health and well being of our seniors But, man, there's nothing more rewarding than watching, you know, those multiple generations get together and enjoy each other and spend time together and do crafts together or whatever. Every time our staff brings one of their children in children and golden retrievers that's kind of the model that you can bring a golden retriever in or a child in. You can see. Even someone in advanced memory care can can bring back the memories of childhood or raising a pet, and so they, they, they love watching the children be part of things, whether it's music activities or Easter eggs or whatever else.
Speaker 2:We just hosted a large Easter egg hunt and a lot of our staff brought their, their children, to the event. The eggs the seniors stuffed over 1000 eggs for the kids And they like to see that process. I think it helps with their self esteem and helps with their self belonging and everything But just the. Also the pleasure we get from seeing the families interact with each other the, the staff, can take a break and walk out there and actually see their child during a break, you know. Or the, or we can bring the, the children in the building for a music event and watch. You know, multi generations interact with each other.
Speaker 4:What a beautiful experience to have. I know that you know, speaking as a parent. When you are at work all day, it can be stressful sometimes feeling like you're missing out on your kids day, whether they're at daycare or at school. So to be able to offer that, you know take a break and go check in with the kids or see them doing an activity with the residents, that's. That's wonderful.
Speaker 1:It's been really great too, because I remember my days as a parent and you know feeling that panic of trying to get home. you know I have to get home so I can nurse, or I have to, you know, get to the childcare right away, otherwise I'm going to be late, and so you know to do as much as we can to relieve some of that stress. you know it really goes a long way.
Speaker 4:So it seems to me that you guys are kind of ready for growth. I've heard a little bit about some of your plans, but can you share with our listeners kind of what's in the works, what's next for your property?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we mentioned briefly earlier we would like to continue the spectrum into skilled nursing and Maggie has been working on designing a 48 bed facility that would do behavioral health long term and skilled nursing, and so that's that's something that we're hoping on the horizon.
Speaker 2:The property we have in Durham, the 28 acre parcels right on the river, it's absolutely beautiful. We did just recently also open our own independent hospice care Unity Hospice was open recently, and then we haven't set our sights on what the final fourth building would be on our Durham location, but we have several ideas that we're kind of leaning towards or working on. But our goal would be to be able to take care of about 180 to 200 seniors on that property as well as the staff that are there. And then on the other side of things, we're currently in the middle of building 44 tiny homes in Dover. That will be our staff will get first priority towards a 44 unit project in Dover, and now let Maggie join in a little bit. But we are in the process of putting together a 32 unit project here in Dover, new Hampshire. That would be two, three and four bedroom versions of the tiny home, a little bit bigger, and so let Maggie, kind of join in and kind of wrap that up.
Speaker 1:So it was really exciting. We saw the success on all sides that occurred when we built Harmony Place, which is again the seven one-bedroom apartment building.
Speaker 1:So we decided hey, let's keep this going, and if we want to grow Harmony homes and build the skill nursing facility, we're obviously going to need more staff. So again, it comes full circle right. So we decided to work with the city of Dover, and so it's about a 10-minute drive, five miles perhaps away from our Harmony homes location, but that's where we're building 44 tiny home units of affordable housing. It's a really interesting project. We are setting them up as cottage courts So they all have front porches. They're freestanding units, They face a common green. But we're really excited about this And we definitely have had a lot of interest, you know, in them, not only from Harmony homes employees, but these units will be available to anybody, so we've had a lot of interest from the general public as well.
Speaker 2:One of the other projects that we're looking at endeavoring into is working with some local communities and putting accessory dwelling units into area homes so that seniors can transition into an ADU or accessory dwelling unit, a small tiny home in their property and then possibly lease the main house to nurses or other medical staff in the area and use them as a kind of recruitment process. And we also are looking at down the road getting into entry-level single family homes.
Speaker 1:I guess what it comes down to is that when we got into affordable housing, we really opened our eyes as to just how big the problem is. I mean, we need 90,000 units across the state over the next couple of decades to meet the need, never mind where we want to grow as a state, and so it's really interesting, in a tricky way, of seeing you know where the state could go. So, yeah, we just we feel very strongly in supporting the affordable housing effort.
Speaker 2:The other challenge in New Hampshire that we're facing is that we have about 150,000 people currently over age 65. And that number is a strongly growing state is going to quadruple to 600,000 in the next 15 years, and so we don't have anywhere near the facilities that we're going to need to care for 600,000 people.
Speaker 4:Wow, those numbers are staggering. So I commend you guys for doing all these incredible things. I just keep thinking you know, how did you come up with these solutions and ideas And how did you overcome that fear of oh gosh, this is a big project, this is a big risk. Should we actually do it? I have to imagine you kind of dealt with some of that as you were planning all of these things.
Speaker 2:Well, to be honest with you, when I was, i think, a freshman or sophomore year in high school, my English teacher said to me John, i mean, this is a compliment, but you're too dumb to quit. And I have kind of taken that and applied it to a kind of a life motto. When you look at projects, maggie and I all the time look at a project and go we're going to build 44 tiny homes in Dover. It seems overwhelming at first And the too dumb to quit mantra is really if it looks like it's probably not easy to do or statistically challenging or whatever else, find a creative way to do it, and by doing things like starting our own construction company. We had no intention of starting our own construction company. That was not our plan.
Speaker 2:We were doing some lead projects and flips a year or two ago And now we're up to a 10 person team that's building and doing this, you know, every single day, and I could see us within the next year or two being a 25 person team or larger, building affordable housing throughout the area as well as senior housing.
Speaker 2:But really it was build one project for a million dollars, build the next project for five million dollars and then build the next project to 10 and realize that we can do this and be stubborn enough. And Maggie and I have a gift I oversimplify things and she over complicates them, so we find that the answer is somewhere in between And that's really a unique, and so that's kind of what allows us to kind of take on things that probably at first don't seem like they're logical. The other thing that we've built is a pretty strong support network in the area of people that believe in us, that believe whether it's our financing sources. We have an amazing staff at Harmony Homes. Our leadership team is our HR. Our entire team is dedicated and very focused and we're able to recruit people that are interested in being part of something that's larger than themselves and providing housing, and so by bringing a great team together, we believe anything's possible. We really do.
Speaker 4:Do you guys have any intention of recreating what you've started there in New Hampshire anywhere else in the country or are you really going to focus on kind of your local community there?
Speaker 2:So we've been asked that question recently and if someone asked me five years ago, would I be building affordable housing, I would have said no, And so could I see the model expanding. I sure could see it expanding. We're kind of super focused in New Hampshire right now and we believe that that model could be picked up by other people as well. It doesn't have to be us, It could be other people that go. It takes action to make changes. I hate to say it, but I say this all the time. If we wait for the government to fix the housing problem, we're in trouble. It's going to take individuals and businesses to partner with the government and to grow the opportunity and everything. So I could see either our model or us helping people set this up across other areas. I think we could certainly consult with somebody and help them with the puzzle together and stuff like that. And I want Maggie to add to this.
Speaker 1:So that's the other part to this is that right now our team is physically based in the Seacoast in New Hampshire. So we're kind of concentrating our physical projects right now. But because our Dover Tiny Home project, which is officially called the Cottages at Back River Road, because it's gotten as much attention as it has something we truly didn't expect, i have to admit we have started to get a lot of interest from other areas of the state and regions and other states as well. So we've been asked for basically small consultations or advice about how to get projects going in other areas of the country Atlanta, ohio So it's starting to spread a little bit. So, as John says, never say never. right, where were we five years ago? Goodness knows where. we'll be So happy to keep the conversation going.
Speaker 4:Great answer. I love that. Well, thank you guys for what you do. Wow, i mean, what an incredible solution that you've come up with, and I can see that continue to slowly grow. So I'm glad that you guys have started this. So a couple of last questions for you guys. What is one piece of advice that you have carried with you throughout your careers?
Speaker 2:Well, there's a couple of them, i guess, along the way and everything Throughout the Air Force, i was fortunate enough to be led by some amazing men and women, and everything One of them taught me along the way is finishing what you start and everything, and I try to carry that through us. Also, the piece that if you take care of the people around you, you can create amazing loyalty, and both of those things are serving us very well right now.
Speaker 1:I guess, something that I've certainly been interested in as I work through details And so used to again the world of black or white as far as rules and regulations go, i really kind of learned how to step back. I'm still working on it, but to ask the question why, that's something that John I will give him all the credit in the world is really excellent at. What is the intent of something? And so being able to step back and saying you know, what can we do? And it's not just talk, it's action, and so that's been a really exciting thing for me to learn.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the Department of Health and Human Services for the state of New Hampshire has probably got tired of me asking why. Because I'll read the regulations and just ask questions on why we have to do it a certain way, because I believe our seniors need that advocacy.
Speaker 4:Yes, absolutely Asking why I love it. So what is one piece of advice that you guys would give to anyone listening to this podcast managers, owners, operators, people interested to get into this industry?
Speaker 2:Well, the first thing I would tell people is look long term, Don't jump in thinking I'm going to get an amazing return this year. We're very big believers in real estate And so we look at investing long term into real estate. We believe that that's a very solid motto, And so we've been able to adapt and adopt an idea that we're not looking at this like what can we make this year And start to roll over our successes into other opportunities and grow the business from that method. But it's more about looking at a long term picture and seeing how it impacts and builds societies and communities.
Speaker 1:The other part too is that when we talk about, we've got the senior housing, of course, which is near and dear to our hearts, and I would say that it's incredibly gratifying, by the way, to be able to walk in and make a connection with someone who has done so much in their lives.
Speaker 1:We recently unfortunately lost some of residents that they've been through World War II And you think about what they've experienced, and we take a lot of care for veterans and veteran spouses And just in general learning and just really being able to show our residents dignity every single day. But into the affordable housing part, as a business, we're very interested in, you know, talking with other businesses about how this can make an impact for them too. I mean, it's such an important issue And so it has definitely made a large impact on stabilization of harmony homes And again, we're looking now towards the growth that we can have when a lot of companies in the area are starting to think they're looking at instability themselves. So it's been a game changer for us And so how can this be an opportunity for other businesses as well?
Speaker 2:I think the other thing I'd like to add real quickly on the investor part of it also is in owners is to look at, you know, networking and partnerships. When we try to do things alone, we grow very slowly. But when we start to partner with other companies or other agencies, we see those growth spurts that really help us. when we partner with somebody that's been through it before or somebody that's learned a lot from doing it, those networks and those partnerships really, really help you grow your projects.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's been awesome because somebody else will have thought of something that we didn't, and so you know. They say that you know, necessity is the mother of invention. Well, here we are inventing, and so the more avenues and more ideas that can come from all these different businesses, sections, anything you know, all these different locations, you know coming together, different entities, you know, the better, the faster we'll all be.
Speaker 4:Well, Maggie and John, thank you so much for joining me today And just taking the time to share your story and share the amazing projects that you guys are coming up with. I know our listeners will much appreciate the advice that you've given to them. If people want to learn a little bit more about you guys or the projects that you're doing, what's the best way for them to get in touch with you or learn more?
Speaker 1:I think the best way to get in touch with us or learn more about the projects we're doing is to start at our Harmony Homes website. That address is wwwHarmonyHomesNHcom, and then you can probably get ahold of us through our emails. My email is Maggie at V-S-V-N-Hcom. Get stuff done in the hamper Or grow strength and dignity Wonderful.
Speaker 4:Well, thank you guys, again so much, and thank you to our listeners for tuning in today.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for having us.
